Great to chat with Cailey Patterson, Executive Director at Saints Performance Automotive Design, the University of St Andrews Formula Student E team! They are designing and building a performance electric car! We discussed the competition, the future of electric vehicles in competition, how to start a cleantech project and more!

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James

The unedited podcast transcript is below

James McWalter

Hello today we’re speaking with Cailey Patterson executive director at Saints Performance Automotive Design or SPAD, welcome to the podcast Cailey.

Cailey Patterson

Thank you so much for having me very excited to be here.

James McWalter

Fantastic to start? could you tell us a little bit about SPAD.

Cailey Patterson

Yes, so we compete in the formula student competition. Um, it’s a global engineering competition held at silverstone every year um and we compete in both you know business side of the competition and in the engineering. Um, and yeah, we’ve kind of started this society. Um, it was started by a group of 6 students who felt that their technical knowledge didn’t have an opportunity to be exercise in a more practical manner. Um, particularly in one like mechanical engineering. Um so spad was founded um to fill that gap and we’ve kind of grown the past year ah to team of around maybe 50 students. Um, so it’s been very exciting.

James McWalter

Those original 6 students before you know the massive growth and I guess to start could we talk a little bit about the um, the program you know, not everybody listening will understand silverstone understand formula one and so on. So yeah, we’d love to hear a little bit more context about the you know the opportunity that already existed. And then why that kind of original group of 6 students started in the space and.

Cailey Patterson

It’s a formula student. Um, in particular, it’s run by the institute of mechanical engineering. Um and it was backed by Ross Braun um his big name and Mercedes formula one racing and. It was kind of you know this student competition that was supposed to naturally feed into the formula motorsport world. Um, and traditionally it’s an engineering design competition. But we’ve kind of entered into this field. Without an engineering department. Um, so from our perspective. Um, we’ve really learned that there’s so much more to this competition than engineering. Um. I mean when we started we had absolutely nothing. No garage space. No funding from the university um, no tools. Not a lot of knowledge. Um, necessarily. But yeah, it’s taking the initiative and um.

So Formula student ah was created by the institute of mechanical engineering ah to give University students the chance to compete In. You know the motorsport universe. Um, within their curriculum. Um, and I think with our team in particular, we sort of you know we don’t have an engineering department So We’ve taken that and have you gained a much more.

Cailey Patterson

Okay, um, so how we approach the competition is yeah, it’s a lot more than just engineering it requires marketing. Um. Sponsorship we’re fundraising everything ourselves. Um you we’re one of the only teams that doesn’t receive funding from their university. Ah so there are a lot of challenges built into it for us specifically um that we’ve taken more of a business or approach to it and.

James McWalter

Like yeah and let’s talk a little bit about St Andrews itself. So you know the name of spad. It’s a saints right? and that comes from the fact that University you’re talking about St Andrews and I was particularly interested in this because I.

Cailey Patterson

Good.

James McWalter

Disscent Andrews and for the Kar audience St Andrews is you know I think it’s the third oldest english speaking university in the world. It’s kind of nestled in this very very quaint fit village the village of town of St Andrews in Scotland but yeah, we’d love to hear a little bit of context about St Andrews and you know you you mentioned it didn’t have. A suitable department and so you’re trying to um, bring to bear the tools and the resources you do have to bear. So yeah, so we’d love to hear a little bit about you know your experience at 10 enders as you’re trying to you know, bring spad to the next level. So.

Cailey Patterson

Yeah, So our team in particular. Um we have a lot of physics students students in chemistry maths Computer Science Sustainable development I’m an international relations and econ major. Um, we have some students in philosophy and geography and we’ve all sort of come together and the initial you know reason for starting spd um was to establish you know some kind of engineering community here. Um, but we’ve all. Kind of come together to take this interdisciplinary approach to the competition. Um, because I think innovation is driven by you know, a different interdisciplinary approach and.

Cailey Patterson

Technology in particular advances relative to its capacity to differentiate. So I think with St Andrews being such a diverse community. Um yeah I think that we can produce something very interesting.

James McWalter

Um, and formula student itself as you said it’s a competition. How do you win.

Cailey Patterson

Well so breaking down their static events and dynamic events. The static events are the more business related events. There’s a lap time simulation a business plan presentation cost report. And an engineering design event and then on the dynamic side you have 5 different engineering events on track so we have like a skid pad acceleration autocross endurance which is 26 labs and there’s also an efficiency score. So with that. Um, you need to perform well in both categories so to win per se um, our approach is to make it in the endurance lap because that’s the one that generates the most points. Um, and it’s also the one that not a lot of teams finish. So our goal is to try to finish that and event in particular.

James McWalter

So you mentioned these different types of ways to win and you said that you’re having a particular focus on the endurance part of the competition and why is that the most interesting and is there particular advantages that working with an electric vehicle has for that particular event.

Cailey Patterson

Ah, well actually I think that’s the worst event to compete in with an electric vehicle. We’re having some and real issues with cooling Ah, in particular, we’re not allowed to use water cooled.

Cailey Patterson

Methods It’s you know, usually the safe bet is to use an air cold system. Um, so we spend a lot of our design focus in that regard on a those systems. So yeah.

James McWalter

Um, Okay so that that’s fascinating. Um, but I guess as you’re thinking through the different ways that you could you know win certain parts of the composition versus others. How much does the. Yeah, and the nature of an electric vehicle come into play.

Cailey Patterson

I Will I think our decision. Um, you know obviously the easy choice would be to build an internal combustion Engine vehicle. Um, especially with our experience. It’s just the easiest you know way to actually. Compete with the car wrong track. But what we had to think about especially the start of last year was you know a lot of students on the team are going to Graduate. We Want this society to continue long after that. Um so thinking in terms of Sustainability. Where’s the competition going to Move. Where’s the industry going to move the choice had to be E B Um, and it also fits with.

02:22.74

Cailey Patterson

And our University values of Sustainability. Um our own personal values even and you know making an impact in that industry now even at a formula student level. And something that we were particularly interested in being a part of.

James McWalter

And so do you think that formula students will eventually even mandate electric vehicles down the road.

Cailey Patterson

I think so I think it’s going to be sooner and than we anticipate. Um I mean just the movement from you know last year to now I think majority of the grid is going to be ev. Um, and I think there might be 1 or 2 ice vehicles still left um and usually ice is a good backup if something happens with the power train just throw an engine in the back that we can still compete. Um, but I think everyone’s going to be. Going for Ev this year

James McWalter

And thinking about yeah the environment of St Andrews itself and again for the audience. It’s incredibly quaint, but it’s also surrounded by rural roads. Um. Yeah, very quiet here as often common to see a tractor as you are to see cars or on some of the roads near and Andrews. Um, when test driving and so on how does all that work. Well.

Cailey Patterson

So we’re actually going to go to an airfield um, there’s one in England that we think we can get on but we’re essentially going to set up the formula student track. Very much an abridged version of the track at Silverstone. It’s only on one section of it so we’re going to replicate that track at this airfield and test the car there because obviously there’s not. Really anywhere in st andrews we can test it besides the beach maybe but I’m feeling our engineering team won’t like that. No yeah.

James McWalter

It It be her to get it up off it. Um up to up some those steps and so on Um, and so even it loves to kind of dive in. So Even when you’re trying to figure out all right. We need a test place where you know you’re kind of more focused on the operation side. What that goes into actually just finding a place right? What are is the work. What are the you know the skills that you have to kind of leverage. Um, because I think for a lot of projects like this. They kind of seem you know, kind of very well- established or you know like these oh this. Yeah this this team they’re building this electric electric formula one car Like. Um, they must have all the support. It must have things already set up for them. Um, but as we both know you know there’s a ton of just like kind of the small little nudges you have to do every day to get products like this off the Ground. So even just in the case of finding that Airfield what are the things that your team had to do to get that you know to make that real right.

Cailey Patterson

I Mean everything Really we’ve had to be really scrappy. Um, you know, just picking up the phone calling as many people as we can, um even per things like our garage Space. We couldn’t find 1 in St Andrews Um, then you also have to think about things like insurance Coverage. Ah because we don’t We don’t operate under this framework that an engineering department normally provides to University Students. Ah. We don’t necessarily have the £15000000 insurance that formula student would like us to have um I think our University covers 5000000 which is you know, reasonable for us considering we’re not using any University buildings or.

Cailey Patterson

You know everything’s outsourced. Um, and we’ve also partnered with a metal fabrication company and Dundee. Um, we’re using a space in their garage. Um up until the chassis and suspension and all of that’s done and then. We’re going to have to find a place to keep it while we work on the power train. So a lot of different moving pieces. We kind of learn as we go and try to plan ahead as best we can.

James McWalter

And in terms of the university itself it it sounds like you know it’s definitely not this incredibly you know official stamp of approval type project. Um, but you know you’re you’re obviously working with aspects of the university. Everyone involved is a a member of. Yeah, a university club or society how exactly is the interaction with the university um, and where could you know? Ideally, if anybody e and Andrews is listening to this. Um, if they could give support were the areas that you’d love to receive more support for this project and.

Cailey Patterson

We received a lot of help from the alumni and development department. The student union kind of operates as our safety and risk mediator just to you know, ensure that everything is. Being taken care of properly in that respect but we would really love the support of the eden campus was just built. They have a battery lab that’ll be should be done by the end of the year and that’s something that we would really like to incorporate into our project. Um set space is designed for you know, entrepreneurial um maker space. You know that’s it’s that type of environment and we think our project perfectly fits within. The bounds of that purpose.

James McWalter

And how do you and the other members of the team. You know balance The you know the work you’re doing with spad and then your studies and like other commitments.

Cailey Patterson

Ah, so within the whole team. You know people take on different roles. So you know if you’re kind of just a general member. You know few hours a week here and there but I would say. Our central committee which is around 15 students. It’s all consuming. Um, and yeah I wake up in the morning I do my spat emails I set up meetings later in the day I do my Linkedin and then school kind of fits in between there and I know. Especially a lot of the calmsi physics math students. It’s you know time blocking and trying to have the best of both worlds and commit as much as you can to the project.

James McWalter

Um, and how I guess like thinking through the motivations of the team and I’m sure everyone’s motivations for being involved in something like this can vary. Um, what are typically some of the main reasons why people want to get involved.

Cailey Patterson

Um, I think a lot of people are sort of attracted to spad because they’re motor sport enthusiasts and then we we’ve had a lot of interest. There’s actually a growing.

Cailey Patterson

Community of people who are interested in engineering um around town we got invited to a community page on teams earlier this year so there’s definitely you know this need to actually. Work on something and I know um I talked to a few students who told me in high school. They used to have a mate like a little maker space at at their school and they should really love just building something and they come to spat even if they’re not interested in. Formula murder sport or mechanical engineering just to have that practical experience and learn how to Cad and fabricate and three d print and all of that.

James McWalter

That super cool. Um, and I guess you know thinking for for yourself, right? You know your international relations major something that’s quite removed I guess from ah you know like 3 d printing and motive for sports and so on. Um, I guess what? what are the kind of motivations and inspiration for why you’re involved in the project yourself. So.

Cailey Patterson

So I joined the team a few months after it started. Um I’m a big formula fan formula e and formula one and I saw an email that they started spd and I joined the team and. Once you you know become a part of it. You realize how how much there is to learn from it I mean from you know in terms of my career path. You know the sponsorship they’re reaching out to people. Emails Linkedin messages coming up with a strategy. Um, you know that’s based on this whole sales pipeline has been super beneficial and just the networking I mean I’ve probably reached out to 7000 people over the course of my time. And bad and you know I’ve met a lot of great alumni and people in different industries and I think that those relationships have been really good to have.

James McWalter

Yeah, you know one of them was me right? and that’s that’s how we we ended up chatting today. Um, actually I think it’s it’s such a kind of powerful message. You know a lot of time we talk on on the podcast to folks who are you know founders of different types of climate tech companies. But the motion for them to get.

James McWalter

Something from an idea to being a startup tackling a problem is pretty much identical to what you’re describing. You know you’re trying to build a team. You’re up against the odds. Um,, there’s some sort of Problem. You’re trying to solve right? You know in this case. Ah you know there’s a particular set of Criteria to win a competition. Um. So There’s like it’s a very kind oflivity defined problem. But how you get there is completely up to the efforts and and the skillets of the team you can build and that scrappiiness that you mentioned that’s all the better right? It’s a very similar to a startup team or a team trying to build an early stage prototype to solve a problem you have to like.

James McWalter

Pull every lever you have available to you. Ah and the idea of reaching out to 7000 people I think that’s probably intimidating to a lot of the folks not just students but people who are thinking about starting their own companies but those are the numbers you need to do um like I tell people that to get to the point where my own startup I was reaching out to a couple hundred people a week for Years um and you know I was ideating I was trying to understand different aspects of the different problem space I was in and it’s just necessary and as you kind of move through that you do start to kind of find specific ah points where it’s like okay. This is the type of knowledge base or person or whatever it may be that is the higher leverage way to move my project forward move my company forward. Whatever it may be um and so you you kind of mentioned you know thinking through careers and so on one of the things I think um. So some of the students you mentioned did philosophy that was my background it did masters in in Scotland in St Andrews and was actually going into a ph d program there before I ended up going and not staying in academia but moving into the you private industry. And 1 of the reasons I moved into private industry was it was very hard for me to see the real world effect of staying in academia um, I wanted to see the translation into some sort of real world impact and you know I think that is often something that a lot of students. Um.

James McWalter

And so and so you know students obviously can have a lot of different opportunities to try to figure out ways to better better leverage their experience in university to have the type of impact they want to have on the world after university um. But I think one of the things or critiques I have of the university system is often. It doesn’t give people the um, you know the opportunities to actually get exposed to like real-world type problems in a way that actually would maybe increase their learning and so you know for me everything that I look at is like oh through the prism startups um so it’s like oh yeah pretty much everyone going through university should at least have the opportunity even if they don’t want to actually do it. They don’t have to do it but should have the opportunity to be supported to try to start a company um because I think you just learn so much through the process of trying to solve a problem. Um, in that way. But I think projects like um like so spad also has this massive impact and so I guess at a high level Kali how could universities better encourage projects like spd from happening because it’s had such a massively positive effect on you and your team.

Cailey Patterson

You know honestly I think having the amount of autonomy that we do have from the university has allowed us to really shape this into what we want it to be ah, you know we’re not. Working within a certain curriculum or within a certain department so we have the flexibility to pretty much run the team. However, we want um, there’s really no oversight um on how we operate. Aside from risk and safety and I think that universities I know I’ve heard from you know, various different societies that you know when they try to go through the university particularly the students association like. In terms of what they’re allowed to do um, kind of gets limited I know there is a big debate over the use of power tools within societies all over St Andrew’s mermaids.

Cailey Patterson

They use power tools to create their set and the University kind of outlawed them.. There’s been this whole rise for the power tools initiative that started but I think overall universities can just create. Space for students to pursue their interest and make sure that that space is well equipped with whatever they might need and I think from that Ah, you’d be surprised what students can come up with.

James McWalter

Yeah, that power tools example is kind of remarkable. So what is the the rationale for banning Para toolsols from students.

Cailey Patterson

It’s a risk and safety concern I.

James McWalter

That’s that’s absolutely fascinating. Um I mean I could imagine there are you know? Maybe you don’t want to have like ah like an open ended pansaw or something but ah, you know surely that is that is remarkable.

Cailey Patterson

Is yeah, it’s been. You know? Um, we’ve actually started us in a few of the drama societies who need it for to build their sets and you know there’s 1 team who. Uses them occasionally for something and robotics. Um, we fall started this coalition to use our you know a little power tools.

James McWalter

Yeah, yeah, um, and again any st andrew administrators listening to this like cop on that is absolutely ridiculous. Um, yeah, like using these of power tools which have been around I don’t know hundred years um you know obviously you can mandate specific types of power tools.

Cailey Patterson

Um, yeah.

James McWalter

More than others but the idea of like not using them when people are truly clearly trying to have like these ways of building and and literally trying to build with you know hands side Underback is is wild and um, yeah I I’m sorry to hear that that’s that’s a classic example of like safety or you know safety of a wall else and.

Cailey Patterson

Is that.

James McWalter

It’s a nature of risk that actually allows folks to grow anywheres and so removing all risk I think removes all growth and this is just like such a kind of weird and silly example of that you know.

Cailey Patterson

Yeah I know especially um I mean we’ve submitted risk Assessments. You know it’s taken consideration and the high voltage low voltage systems that we’re using and. Some of those risks are death and electrocution and we’ve submitted those but something about the power tools.

James McWalter

Yeah, you’ve actually convinced me yes, having the ya university much more involved if that is the kind of level of involvement um might not be the kind of net good that it might look at first glance that it is better to have um that independence so that you can experiment um, because otherwise you know.

.

James McWalter

Things like this would potentially ground to a halt. Um, and I guess you know I think one of the really interesting things when I was asking you a little bit about the motivation of yourself and the rest of the team is that the climate element or the kind of need to work on electric cars from just that climate piece wasn’t like. 1 of the first things and what I think is kind of interesting about that is and correct me I wrong. There’s basically a supposition that that’s just the water we’re we’re going to have to swim in anyways and that you know the I’m interested. You know one one could be interested in a certain type of form a 1 racing. And oh yeah, of course that’ll be electric right? Just that’s that’s the kind of drive train of the future. It’s just kind of contained whereas I think ten years ago it’s it’d be like oh my god you know how can we force this cleaner alternative into the status quo but it sounds like The actual excitement is around. Oh this is the new this is the future. This is not just from a kind of environmental point of view but from a yeah, ah, the excitement around the torque that an electric vehicle can have and all these other elements as well. And so yeah, you know is that the case are folks kind of you know have basically internalized. Climate message and you know it’s these other elements now that actually are more inspirational in terms of building projects like this.

Cailey Patterson

I mean I think for everyone on the team. Yeah, our our own you know selfish priority was to build something but we were really excited about getting involved in ev once we realized that we could this is something that we could. Potentially do um because technology and ev is just moving so fast and arguably faster than it’s being developed. Um and you know I think we all share that same interest. ah ah I lost you for a second. Um I think that we all share that same interest to get into this industry that’s changing so fast and you know being a part of that movement and.

James McWalter

Yagenner.

Cailey Patterson

You know, potentially even you know, finding something new within that industry and ah the formula Student Universe to yeah.

James McWalter

You know we’ve kind of talked a little bit about this but let’s say ah you know there’s some bright students who or anybody they don’t have to be in a certain university but they have an idea they want to work on something and they don’t really know where to start right? Maybe it’s them and 1 friend or them and two friends and they’re like okay this is a project that we think would have a huge amount of impact. Yeah, and more maybe than anything else something that be really fun to work on for a couple of years what what should be like literally the first step that person would take.

Cailey Patterson

I mean that was started um like I said by group 6 students who were essentially just all sat in a room watching Tv and someone said do you want to build a car and. Now we’re building a car. So I think it’s just you know, finding that small group initially um and that you can reach out via Facebook groups. Messenger I found the team via email. So it’s just about. Getting the word out and because it’ll surprise you? Um, yeah there there will be more people who are interested in your project than you’d think.

James McWalter

And absolutely and another thing I would probably add to that is don’t wait. You know if you start and let’s say it’s 5 people sitting around watching Tv and and everyone’s like really excited and the next day it’s only you and 1 other who are like responding to the email to do that next step just keep going. People will come back in um, like it often just takes 1 or 2 people to just like put in those hard yards at the beginning and really drive forward and because yeah people have varying levels of risk appetite. And so what seems like a cool idea once they kind of realize amount of work involved. They may not necessarily want to do it right? this second but as a project has moved forward every single single step that the person or the founding group puts in de-risks it for the next person to join. Right? So somebody who is a slightly less risk tolerance but still wants to work on it like an early stage project like they might not be the one to literally send the 20 emails to just get it up and running but they might be the one once they get that email to do the next step and then somebody in their group. You extend the group might do the next step and so on um, and so you know it’s just a matter of like. Couple of people you know in this case is 5 or 6 people like just driving it forward from the beginning and like you know and that kind of mutual. Ah accountability is is incredibly powerful as well, right? It’s like you know I’m doing this. What are you doing and again it doesn’t have to be like a top-down, you know, looking over.

James McWalter

Each of the shoulders. It should be fun. It should be the kind of thing where um yeah, we’re we’re doing this together. Um, and that yeah is coupled with the accountability that we are actually doing it together.

Cailey Patterson

Yeah I completely agree I mean our whole premise of this first year in the competition is to set it up so that it’s not so painful next year for you know the generations of teams after us. Ah.

James McWalter

Right.

Cailey Patterson

And it’s kind of I mean even now you know I graduate in July I’m already kind of getting an idea of who might be able to replace me and how the interteam dynamics would work with that and hand over document. So yeah. I do think it’s all about that initial push.

James McWalter

You and you’re graduating. Um, what’s the plan after graduation.

Cailey Patterson

Um, um, I’d like ah to go into wealth management I’ve been working with a really great team for the past two summers. Um, and then hoping to go back.

James McWalter

And and where you’re looking to kind of relocate for that I don’t believe there’s a ton of wealth management in in St Andrews town itself. But yeah, where where you’re looking to to set up shop.

Cailey Patterson

Yes, I will be returning back to Texas got a little homesick. It’s a little cold and rainy here. Yeah.

James McWalter

It for desockk yeah I can imagine and especially with and and the sunlight a um, there was ah somebody I studied with who actually I think she’s also a texan who had to go back in January just because the darkness was but too much for her. Um, which I could be understand. It’s it’s quite a lot. Um bridge well Kaylee um, you know before you move off been great chatting is there anything I should have asked you about but did not.

Cailey Patterson

Um, um, I’d love to share some more about how you non-sudents and people outside of the University and the team can get involved. Yeah so ah at the moment.

James McWalter

Please.

Cailey Patterson

We’re in our fundraising stage and really what we’re looking for financial contribution would be great. Um, but we are really looking to connect with anyone who’s either interested in our project or interested in. Supporting us in some way. Um, and we offer a whole suite of packages to companies including in the marketing field. The way can I restart that I got distracted Sorry so we’re really looking.

James McWalter

You Yeah yet nowhere.

Cailey Patterson

For as many people to get involved in our project as possible whether that be via a financial contribution. Ah you know, exposure kind of like what we’re doing now. Um you know experience Expertise If You know someone who. Might be able to help us in some way we’re more than open to Welcom you weling you welcoming you to our team.

James McWalter

So brilliant and we’ll include some contact details in the show notes um, does brilliant. Thank you so much Kalee and and best to look with former student and the project.

Cailey Patterson

Um, yeah, thank you James.