Great to chat with Deirdre Lord, Co-Founder of The Megawatt Hour, The Megawatt Hour’s software transforms data into energy analytics for fast, accurate, forward-looking energy information for energy users, managers and finance professionals! We discussed how they developed their product, a case study around the value of energy analytics, the state of global energy volatility and more!

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James

The unedited podcast transcript is below

James McWalter

Hello today we’re speaking with Deirdre Lord Co -founder of the Megawatt Hour welcome to the podcast Deirdre brilliant and I supposed to start could you tell us a little bit about the Megawatt hour

Deirdre Lord

Thank you so much great to be here. Sure the Megawatt hour aims to minimize cost and usage for commercial and industrial customers and improve business outcomes by transforming utility data into actionable information.

James McWalter

And what drove that initial decision to start at the Megawatt hour

Deirdre Lord

Sure so we my business partner Bob bright and I have been involved in retail power markets since the late 90 s we spent you know decades helping to build retail businesses mean it and when I say retail I mean. Businesses that bought power and gas but mostly power wholesale and then transformed wholesale ah electricity into a retail price for commercial and industrial customers and so we were always on the company side doing that and in fact, the. Business prior to the megawatt hour that I started was a business called juice energy started with colleagues from constellation new energy and we focused on transparency and green power and that business closed in 2006 and Bob and I essentially and ah. Couple of others got into a you know conversation and with the classic kind of whiteboard exercise and said what’s missing from the industry that has real value for customers. We acknowledge that there were plenty of. Power suppliers. There were plenty of consultants and brokers. But there was no information resource that linked markets to customers that provided transparency around their cost and usage and if you look at other deregulated markets that kind of. Platform exists you know in financial services you can go to Schwab online and see you know how your how your investments are performing. There was no such thing in our industry and so that was the genesis the spark behind building the Megawatt hour

James McWalter

Amazing and in that kind of whiteboarding you know process over those you know hours or days or whatever it was. You know I Guess how did you? you know how did that process go in detail you know were there are lots of different ideas or did this kind of spring out very early on and it was about kind of. Iterating on that kind of core concept of.

Deirdre Lord

Yeah, it’s a really great question and it came what we really did was we said you know what have we heard from customers in the fat in the past and what have they said to us and one of the things that customers consistently said prior to. Building juice and while we were running juice was you know I you look they would say to to me you know, deirdre you look trustworthy. But how do I know I’m making the right decision for my business that was just a consistent message that we heard from customers so that need. Jumped out right away and then when we looked at the supply chain we and our and how that that supply chain overlapped with our skills. It became pretty clear pretty quickly I mean it was not a matter of days of. Of work. It was you know a couple of hours of of talking through what we thought was missing what our skills really? um, you know called for and how that all of that came together.

James McWalter

And then you’re like okay we have this idea you know we we’ve already kind of somewhat validated from our experience and these other kind of previous conversations. What was next you know how how did you kind of proceed with I guess product development and all that set of things.

Deirdre Lord

Yes, so we we wrote up a bunch of of we first sketched literally on a piece of paper the graphics that we wanted to be able to present to customers the the. The high level information that we thought would then spark a behavior or or help a customer make a decision and we had a graphic designer turn that into more interesting visuals. You know something better than pen and paper. And we then took that around to customers who we’d known in this industry and over the years and said does this information help you characterize and and understand your own business in a new way. You know we really kind of went very basic and just tested the idea that way.

James McWalter

And then kind of going into these kind of you’re like a design sprint I guess where you’re you know, kind of helping helping them help you build an Mvp potentially down the road and so what were the kind of additional elements.

Deirdre Lord

Correct. Yeah. Correct. That’s right.

James McWalter

Yeah, was there anything that I guess was surprising when you were bringing that visualization and it’s like oh that that piece like was more valuable or less valuable than you expected.

Deirdre Lord

Um, well so we thought initially that um we thought that customers would really have a lot of of skepticism. Around kind of the underlying data that sat behind these graphics so we spent a lot of time explaining how we developed these visuals and where the data came from and how we how we transformed lots of rows of data into. Actionable information and we were somewhat surprised that customers didn’t worry about our credibility in terms of our ability to build a price. Um, and so that was 1 surprising piece of of kind of learning that we had. Um, another was that we have and we still to this day have pretty basic straightforward visuals and graphics. It’s not elaborate and it’s incredibly powerful for customers. You know what? what that made us realize is gosh you know these customers are used to looking at rows and rows of spreadsheets in excel and it doesn’t take a whole lot to to bring about real clarity in decision making you know. Basic good graphics and a good ui can can be very very powerful.

James McWalter

Yeah I guess you know I think a lot of companies when they get started out misinterprets The kind of minimal part of visual viable product and and often we’ll overbuild in ways that don’t really get to or don’t really focus on solving the kind of core problem and especially in a world where people are coming From. Trading documents or trading excel spreadsheets and and like um, you know the data like the I guess the the data pipes have such a power the calculations on top of that have a power and like the presentation of itself. Yeah, it was nice to have but isn’t as important as the other elements.

Deirdre Lord

Right? right? I couldn’t agree more and we still to this day find that customers tell us you know I spend when we’re talking to customers who are who are. Talking about their process. Their business process. They’ll say things like I spend the period between the Christmas holiday and the new Year’s holiday gathering all of my utility bills and all of my utility data and trying to turn it into something that I can use. In my business decisions and they never get to the visual representation. You know they never get to what is this information really telling me because they are getting buried in you know, rows and rows and columns and columns of data.

James McWalter

No absolutely and so I guess thinking about where the the the product is today. Let’s say I sign up, you know I become a customer like what’s that experience like and you know how how would I kind of interact with the product and get value.

Deirdre Lord

Um, the first thing we do a lot of the setup because our art we came to understand very quickly that you know customers are not going to type in lots of utility data. They will give us the. Permission to access their utility data directly and once they do that we do all the setup in the back end. It’s all automated. Um, and then you know the so the experience is very quick and very easy and you know it takes us when we get a customer’s you. Utility information and permission. It takes us anywhere from you know, half an hour to maybe a couple of hours to get the the information to the customer and get them the forecasting capability and the pricing data. Um, so it’s quite quick I mean they expect their assumption is that it’s going to take weeks and it really takes hours. So the experience is very very quick and easy and then you know the the real issue is how quickly does the customer get value right? That’s what. We care about um and it will really will depend on what the customer’s goal is naturally um, you know are they are they burdened by managing their budgets and that’s a process they do. You know once a year but then they try to update quarterly so you know getting a budget quickly is is a really powerful and important part of their work and so they can get value within. You know, depending on you know the timeline and depending on what their goal is. They’re seeing value. You know, really almost immediately. Especially I would say during periods like this where we’re seeing a lot of volatility and pricing and cost and a lot of confusion about what the future holds for. Energy users.

James McWalter

And I believe one of your customers Cornell University you’ve kind of done a recent project with them. Could you tell us little bit about that.

Deirdre Lord

Sure happy to in fact, the article we we worked with Cornell um the article just came out in district energy magazine this week Cornell has made a commitment to be carbon neutral by 2035 and so they’ve made a whole host of meaningful investments to get to that goal in the late 1990 STheMontrealProtocol phased out chloroplurocarbons and so the university was faced with a challenge. They either had to replace their chiller plant to accommodate this phase out or you know there had been a project that had been kind of bouncing around I think since the 60 s at Cornell which was to use the the cold water the cold deep water of Cayugga Lake which is. Lake where Cornell is is situated use those that cold water to basically chill. You know provide chiller capabilities provide cooling capabilities to the campus and so if you take we take ourselves back to the late 1990 s and the chillers. The re chiller rebuild was going to cost they estimated 58 to $60000000 I’m sorry the chiller replacement was going to cost $30000000 the lake source cooling which was this. This lake project was expected to cost between 58 and $60000000 and so the the campus was faced with well we would expect despite the high initial capital cost that the lake source cooling project would. Deliver much lower operating costs. Um, the expectation was that chillers were going to be 6 times as energy intensive as the lake source cooling project. So decision makers had to present data and analytics. Back in the late 90 s to capture this trade-off and they did ah quite a robust simulation Monte Carlo simulation that forecast electricity prices over 30 years and then they they did a present value analysis. That compared the present value of the costs of running lake source cooling versus this chiller case and they included you know electricity prices they they included operations and maintenance debt service. All of that and it became clear.

Deirdre Lord

Back in the 90 s that lake source cooling had both a lower expected operating cost by about $20000000 and a lower risk around those outcomes you know it was ah a lower distribution around the mean basically running lakes or cooling. And so Cornell this past spring said well we’ve been running lake source cooling for 20 years how did those initial how did that initial analysis turn out and how did we do you know How did we do on a. On an energy cost basis greenhouse gas emissions basis community lake effects you know lake impacts and so thank goodness you know the the there was an environmental studies class of undergraduates that took this project on. For their capstone research in last spring and they had a team that dove into the economics and the environmental impacts and the lake effects and the community impact. Um, we helped support the. The the students who looked at the economics because what we ended up doing is saying okay we we can now comb through utility bills and see what happened with the actual price of electricity over these last twenty years the actual operating costs of lake source cooling. But then we had to also help those. Students say well, what would have happened if the chillers had actually been running um and it was incredibly exciting. We used a lot of the data that that reside in our in our software to help model all of this. And what was exciting and I think very heartening was to see that after 20 years Lake Source cooling despite the fact that electricity prices have been all over. You know they didn’t they didn’t come any close to the anywhere close really to the expected. Electricity price that was forecast bacant back in the late 90 s but nevertheless the savings were significant um lake source cooling ended up costing the university about $20000000 less than than what the chillers would have cost under that same period and there was a there was a 14% irr on the project and about a six and a half year payback. Um, and so and then.

James McWalter

So amazing.

Deirdre Lord

the the avoided co 2 emissions and metric tons was about one hundred and twenty seven Thousand c o two ah metric tons of co 2 So you know that project was absolutely essential to helping. University get down the path towards carbon neutrality and what’s I think compelling about this is there are going to be other customers like Cornell big and smaller. Even you know you don’t have to be a huge university to face this and they’re going to have to ah. You know, address this question. Do I you know do I invest in a higher upfront capital cost for perhaps a less proven technology. You know, but 1 that has real carbon benefits or do I go to a slightly better. You know, slightly more efficient alternative that that may have a higher operating cost and so I think that example is going to be 1 that could have um you know real real impact and ripple effect across the the commercial industrial customers you know around the. Country around the world for that matter.

James McWalter

Yeah, it’s quite a kind of difficult spot that a lot of clean tech and you know, clean energy companies find themselves in because they are looking at this you know 5 10 20 year time horizon to show like the real value in in their product or solution relative to the status quo. And so you know a lot of the people who are making it you know a buying decision today. Um, very unlikely to maybe be the person responsible for whether there was success or failure ten years twenty years on the right line and so having these kind of very strong case studies showing you know, clear efficiency gains and and clear upside. Very powerful again. Not not just in this specific kind of case. But as you said like across a lot of different cases as people are trying to you know, bring newly commercialized technology to bear solving some of these problems. So.

Deirdre Lord

Couldn’t agree more absolutely and and um, so and you’re right about the institutional commitment. You know one of the things that we hear often is especially if if someone is. Is not sure they’re going to be around for the next twenty years they’ll say well. Why would you know I think the forecast is essential to making these calls and we hear people say all the time. Well the minute you do a forecast. It’s going to be wrong. Why do a forecast you know and um. We would just make the case that what the forecast does as it did for cornell in the late 90 s what it does is it really helps helps an institution to clarify the trade-offs and and and bring some clarity also to. The the values or the the objectives of an organization or or a business and and so you know even if your concern is that it’s it’s not going to be perfect or it’s not going to be right? It definitely surfaces decision. You know. Decision criteria in a ah, meaningful and very kind of directed way.

James McWalter

Yeah, it’s always kind of this 2 step process right? like you kind of have to measure what matters for that old saying to to see exactly what’s happening you need to figure out baselines. All those kind of things and it’s always a necessary but not sufficient first step to getting. Making change happen right? because then the the second piece is then putting in place the the change to improve whatever that metric might might be and I think you know a lot of companies have done a really good job at different types of measurement but giving. Yeah I guess empowering using those measurements to empower that like secondary kind of decision making process becomes ever more important.

Deirdre Lord

Right? exactly? Yeah I mean I think there’s a lot of emphasis on on sort of like how will this? How will this investment or this technology help our business run. But what their. Isn’t always ah, always a commitment to as well. What what did happen? How is it a performing and how can we? you know how can we track our performance and then tweak whatever the decision is that we’re making going forward. You know so.

James McWalter

Yeah, absolutely and and you know a lot of the underling reason for I Guess Megawatt existence is just ah, a kind of default lack of transparency across utilities the energy space kind of more generally. Um, how have you seen that change if at all over the last you know last.

Deirdre Lord

Yes, yeah, great. Great question. You know I would say when we when we first you know how people talk about a product is either Aspirin or penicillin and you really want to be the penicillin. You know.

James McWalter

Number of years like are are is there more transparency is it is this still like ah like a real battle.

James McWalter

Yep.

Deirdre Lord

I think when we came you know we so first started envisioning this early stages I think we were much more in the in the aspirin category. Um, and now you know while transparency continues to be very challenging. Um, there seems to be more and more of a a realization among customers that it is essential and that so we’re kind of shifted into the the essential product category and so. You know again, transparency is still challenging. But I think interestingly you know as as customers and as the cni market has shifted more towards yeah esg goals and and broader you know sustainability goals. There is this? um. Philosophy that and um, integral to that is having more transparency around data and analytics. Um, unfortunately I would say the one area we haven’t made as much progress on is just ease of access to data. Um. That still is extremely fragmented in the United States and I believe is still a significant constraint to a ah real and significant and fast transition to a new energy economy. You know? ah. New energy transition.

James McWalter

Yeah I think a lot of the issues lies in kind of the incentives of the various stakeholders right? So You know the the utility right? The grid operator who has incredible amount of data right? like they’re they’re drouting a data but they’re kind of internal incentives. To share and deploy that data in a way that allows like the ecosystem to benefit is pretty limited. Um, often. There’s also a technical inability. You know, maybe there’s a talent like issue in terms of you know, having a ton of smart data data people at those kind of companies because again those incentives aren’t in place maybe to make those hires.

Deirdre Lord

Correct. Yeah.

James McWalter

And so I guess like how do you see that evolving is is that yeah, are there pressure points appearing to kind of make improvements in that in those areas? yes.

Deirdre Lord

Yes, and I would also add and you you allude to this I mean I’ve been in a big organization. A big company. Um, that has legacy systems and it’s not entirely It’s not a trivial exercise to kind of turn that. Battleship you know Um, so I have some I have empathy sympathy for utilities who are feeling that pressure to make a transition It’s just a big challenge. Um, but to the question of um of do we see this changing and the answer is. I cannot imagine that it will not change and I think a lot of the pressure points are coming from companies like well like take Google. For example, you know Google wants to be able to match their usage 24 7 to renewable. Resources and that is huge undertaking and and I don’t believe it’s possible with with legacy utility data access systems. Um, so what what I am passionate about doing and I’m kind of trying to build. More momentum around this is you know let’s make sure when we when we make utility data more accessible that it’s it works for big companies like Google but it works for it. Also works for you know the k through 12 school down the street or anyone else who. Wants to make a broader commitment to sustainability and renewables.

James McWalter

Yeah I mean you know we have this kind of ah like long tail. You know fat head kind of model right with the distribution model of energy usage and so yeah, even if we sign up all the fortune five hundred s to products like this which is great and would have a mass foot impact like we have. Millions of snbs different organizations that also need to know this and and have a huge kind of aggregate ah effect and.

Deirdre Lord

Exactly exactly? Yeah yeah and I you know I Still believe though that if we can do I mean I know we’re not perfect on Healthcare you know and medical data. But if if we can I don’t think that. Let’s put it this way I don’t think the utility kind of um, ah, privacy and confidentiality is the real issue at Stake I think you know customers would would give up you know and would certainly Provide. Um, permissions to to any kind of company that’s going to help them get on a path to to lower or no carbon. Um, so I think if we can do it for Health Care. We can do it for energy.

James McWalter

Yeah, and even if the each other is gave up the doesn’t even have to be down to the at the at the home or business level like the substation level will be lovely for in a lot of cases you know, ah cool and you could have mentioned a little bit earlier that we are certain cities kind of high degree.

Deirdre Lord

Yes, right? Correct Yeah right.

James McWalter

Of energy volatility right? So we’re starting to see some parts of the United States Europe is in yeah, having very high energy prices. That’s even affecting kind of geopolitical elements and and so on um, how do you think this is kind of going to pan out is this so much shortlived and kind of just early kind of growing pains. Are we.

Deirdre Lord

Crisis. Yeah yes.

James McWalter

Kind of entering an extended period of I guess Energy Volatility and Insecurity right.

Deirdre Lord

Yeah I mean I sometimes joke about if I could you know if I could make a good prediction here I’d be living already living on a um, sailboat in Fiji or something but um, it the sense that we get and we’ve been.

James McWalter

She asked her.

Deirdre Lord

Involved in these markets since the late 90 s I would say one piece of kind of one data point that’s worth considering is we had high gas prices in 15008? Um, there were you know we were up over. Ah, believe it was $8 a de oftherm at one point. Um, we are still I think in relatively good. Um and relatively low electricity and gas price environment. It’s just that we got used to. For 5 years of very very very low prices. Very low volatility. Um, and with the destruction of demand around. Um the pandemic. You know we we hit literally record lows. So 1 thing that I think we’re all reacting to. You know, residential customers through to businesses is um, a short-term memory problem. You know we haven’t we don’t remember when it was routine to pay you know 10 $100 a megawatt hour for you know peak summer prices. You know? So so that’s 1 thing to consider we we are now experiencing more volatility higher prices after years of lows um but the sense that we get from looking at these markets pretty consistently is that. Volatility is likely to be back for some time. Um and at some point we will probably see so right now natural gas sets the marginal price for power in the northeast I think maybe everywhere. That will change as we move towards you know broader electrification more renewables. So I think that’s going to be a really interesting dynamic to watch when do we shift from you know a period in which natural gas is setting. Um, power prices and and then what is going to set power prices you know is it going to be offshore wind pricing. Is it going to be storage. You know we don’t know. Um, so that’s a very very very long answer to your question and I think the shorter shorter answer is we are in a. In periods of uncertainty about how we’re going to transition I believe we will see more continued volatility over the next 12 to 18 months and then when we see a shift to a significantly different kind of.

Deirdre Lord

Set of power resources there that will probably continue. Um, so I guess the answer is yes continue volatility. Ah.

James McWalter

Yes, yes, so all. Yeah I think it is this interesting dynamic that as we’re seeing with some of the the kind of inflation worries in the United States over the last few months um yeah the consumers really hate volatility in prices, especially prices of of staples like electricity food and that kind of thing. And so one of the things I’ve been wondering about is like how this type of thing will intersect with more kind of government policy at some sort of level. So for example, there are some experiments started where you know there will be a consistent subscription price paid for energy by the consumer.

Deirdre Lord

Yes.

James McWalter

Certain point and basically the local utility. The local Monopoly will have to you know, try to eke out some sort of margin out of that but they’re not going to be able to like expose that amount of volatility on a month -to-month basis now in the long run that individual consumer might be paying more for energy because there’s still less to be. Sort of margin baked into that volatility calculation. But I think generally you know I think the human psychology kind of runs in the direction that people want consistency and what they pay rather than volatility where at all Possible. So.

Deirdre Lord

Right? Interesting yeah, you know and when we um when we it this kind of volatility leads to odd behaviors. To be honest, you know. For example, we see customers when the market is is really high and they’ve they’ve. Spent you know years. Not really hedging any kind of power or gas market comes up and they say I’ve got a hedge I’ve got to put a hedge in place. It’s it’s you know it’s understandable on the 1 hand because you’re just trying to kind of stop. The pain of volatility. But that’s just really not the time to be making that decision. You know? Um, so that’s another kind of behavior that we’re really trying to to help customers navigate and manage which is you know the time to buy. Power and gas for 2022 was a year ago not three months ago

James McWalter

Right? and looking at your background I believe you advise a number of different clean tech startups. What do you kind of learned working with those companies how they might do things differently compared to you know your kind of initial approach back when you started the megawatt hour and so on. So.

Deirdre Lord

Yeah, um, that has been so exciting I mean it’s been a tremendous amount of fun for me to to be involved with companies like clean choice and station a and electrota. Ah, they all, um, are very very attuned to and very quick to respond to things that you know work in their products and things that they need to tweak and. You know I think we you know once you’ve been around for a while it can be a little bit harder to be quick to to you know, adjust and change. So I really have enjoyed seeing how quickly you know? um. A company like station a is able to to incorporate. Um, real terrific learnings into into their product. Um, you know they they’re a good example of a company that. Um, really uses um financial and you know pricing information but doesn’t rely on utility data to do so um, you know so they’re presenting cost information but they’re not not relying on you know. Reams and reams of utility data to the extent that um, that customer I mean that that clean tech companies can build solutions for customers that you know don’t rely on some of that. Um, ah. Monolithic utility data I think that’s a great learning to take away. You know, use Ai use machine learning wherever possible. Um, what else have I learned from them. Um I think always the importance of really great customer experience. And um, really you know station a as a great responsive user experience. Um electrota has been great. They’re ah um, they’re a ev charging company. They have been um, great at attracting talent. And um, and shifting their focus from sort of more 1 ne-off charging stations to a broader infrastructure type business and um and then clean choice. Um, is also I think really.

Deirdre Lord

Been amazing at figuring out what residential customers. How to how to make renewable energy purchasing easy for residential and that was something in my career as in in retail that I always felt was vastly kind of under. Under invested in and so they’ve been great at really understanding the residential consumer.

James McWalter

And if you look across the kind of space right now. Um, obviously a lot of problems to solve. Where would you like to see more innovation. You know a couple smart people listening to this and like oh you know I want to want to get involved in this space where like the are the big opportunities that that people could try to start looking at and fetch you tackling. So.

Deirdre Lord

Um, oh boy, Great question I mean I suffer from a little bit of if you’re a hammer. Everything looks like a nail and so I really see you know there are great Technologies They’re great kind of ah. There’s a lot of interest in hardware and battery storage and you know I’m not as well versed in sort of the hard the hardware side but I would love to see more people doing the kind of work that we’re doing which is really diving Into. Um. The forecasting and financial modeling to make the case for um, for new technologies on on really good hard science and and and math you know, um, and and so I Think. You know customers Still don’t have enough resources to evaluate. Um the financial impacts of of different decisions. Um I You know my my vision back in the early 90 s when I first got out of Um. Of graduate school was that I wanted to see essentially significantly more distributed solutions to get to a more Carbon- neutral society and so. I Still don’t think we quite have the you know ideal structure for micro-grids and and I am quite convinced I continue to be convinced that um that our you know our economy and our energy infrastructure will only be. More distributed and I think that we’re still a pretty long way from from making that happen and there are a lot of pieces that need to be added to that puzzle. But I Also as a compliment to that I don’t think we’ve effectively engaged residential customers. In this economy yet in this you know, sustainable ah energy industry I Don’t think we’ve gone far enough there to make it easy and make the choices that they make meaningful to their pocketbooks.

James McWalter

Yeah I agree with a ton of that I think on the figuring out the profitability side I think that’s become more and more core question right? as esg types choices become a just part of any sort of top line or bottom line approach to business where it’s like okay I want to build something that has a.

Deirdre Lord

Let’s say.

James McWalter

More positive climate impact. But what is the third year profitability of that asset again at whatever level I think on the distributed energy side. It is this kind of fascinating thing like we’re starting to see a little bit of lineup on the policy side with some of the recent you know Ferc orders and so on and what’s been very exciting on that. Ah, but in the kind of distributed energy resource space. Um, are these kind of emergence of groups like the der task force and and a few others where you have like just a ton of energy in people who are you know at the early stages of starting companies or just coming out of university and just being really really excited about the distributed space like it’s it’s been absolutely fascinating and then just on that last point I think.

Deirdre Lord

Um, yeah.

James McWalter

I Think one of the things and I’ve harve on this on other podcast episodes I think we’ve done collectively. It’s a pretty bad job of describing like the really exciting fully electrified future for the average homeowner. Um, and I think we just need to do if we do a better job at that and just how much better your home will be if you do all those things I think that helps on the demand side.

Deirdre Lord

Yes, yep.

James McWalter

And then we sell just a ton of work to do so that you know when a Hvac person shows up at some of this house. Their default is not the old fossil model of Buts of no.

Deirdre Lord

exactly exactly yep I mean I have I just visited a friend outside of New Haven who has ah an ev and put pv panels on his roof. This was probably 5 maybe seven years ago and he and he told me back then you know I’m not doing this for the economics. You know I’m doing this because I really care about this. It is his most excited moment when he shows people you know the the charger and when he looks at his you know when he looks at the. The Kilowatt hours flowing back into the grid so you know to see how he he’s a doctor. He’s a he you know he’s not in this business at all. But you know if you could capture that experience and and bring it to people and and help. Them really understand what this means I agree with you I think you know we need to make that much easier to access.

James McWalter

So absolutely deirdre has been a great conversation. Is there anything I should have asked you about but did not.

Deirdre Lord

You know I don’t maybe what? um premier league team. We support in this household but other than then liverpool. Yeah, ah well your time will come.

James McWalter

I’ll go first. Yeah yeah, who’s who is that you are I grew up I just United a supporter but it’s it’s been a bad few years for us. You know.

Deirdre Lord

and and I guess the 1 thing we’ve learned from from their recent experience is that 1 team mate doesn’t make the team right? 1 superstar that maybe that’s the theme for energy. There isn’t 1 superstar that’s going to solve all the problems right.

James McWalter

So absolutely? Um, yes.

James McWalter

So if if we could capture the the spiteful energy of a glance from Christina Ronaldo to the to the bench when he’s being taken off I think we would solve a lot of the problems. Thank you Deirdre.

Deirdre Lord

That’s for sure. Thank you so much.

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